EV battery swapping is becoming more common in China - Protocol

2022-03-24 03:29:09 By : Mr. xiaoxiong Chai

Charging a car battery might take an hour … but swapping it out takes minutes.

Battery swapping has never become a mainstream charging method. But it's starting to gain traction in China.

The pitch for battery-swap stations is simple: It can take more than an hour to fully charge common electric vehicles, but swapping in a new battery only takes five minutes.

Yet battery-swapping has never become a mainstream charging method, even as EV adoption has grown significantly over the past decade. Israeli startup Better Place first popularized the idea globally in 2007, and it went bankrupt in 2013. Tesla flirted with the idea the same year Better Place went bankrupt before soon abandoning it for Supercharger stations.

But the idea has taken off in China recently, thanks to a few prominent EV companies’ investments. Companies such as Nio and Aulton New Energy have built 1,400 battery-swap stations nationwide and plan to grow the number to 26,000 by 2025. They hope battery-swap tech can give them an edge in the increasingly fierce domestic competition for EV supremacy. The technological revival is also partly motivated by policy incentives, as the Chinese government started to offer subsidies specific to battery-swap EV models.

Riding on the rapid growth of China’s EV industry, what were once fringe, costly ideas have come back to life. And as they grow, some Chinese companies are also thinking of taking the battery-swap solution global.

As of February, there were more than 1,400 battery-swap stations in China, more than double the number a year ago. Beijing, with 265 stations, has the highest concentration of swapping stations. Most of the existing stations are operated by two companies: Nio, the breakout domestic EV startup, and Aulton New Energy, whose founder first started stepping into the battery-swap field in 2001.

But as the industry starts to attract more market interest, formidable competitors are jumping into the race. In April 2021, Sinopec Group, China’s state-owned petroleum giant and the world’s fifth-most profitable company, announced it planned to build 5,000 battery-swap stations. In January, Contemporary Amperex Technology (CATL), a Chinese company that manufactures one-third of all EV batteries in the world, launched a modular battery-swap service in 10 Chinese cities. Collectively, all of these Chinese companies have pledged to build as many as 26,000 stations by 2025, according to a report by Bloomberg.

Nio, which has been building these stations since 2018, is betting this new charging technology will eclipse other domestic EV brands or even the industry leader Tesla. “As a startup, it needs [brand] differentiation, and it has chosen battery swap as the difference,” said Xing Lei, an auto industry analyst and former chief editor at the Beijing-based China Auto Review. “What battery swap means to Nio is what Supercharger means to Tesla.”

NIO Power Swap Station from NIO on Vimeo.

These battery-swap stations look like sleek boxes you can pull a car into. Each station takes up the space of about three parking spaces and hosts five to 13 batteries. They are usually placed in gas stations or public parking lots. The company has even coined a term, 电区房, meaning properties within a two-mile radius of a Nio battery-swap station, referencing 学区房, the popular tendency of buying property close to a good public school.

While having a fully charged battery in five minutes sounds great, the reality is more complicated. Waiting in line (because a station can only charge one vehicle at a time) and waiting for a full battery (if all the ones in the station are charging) can extend the total time at the station, making it not quite as efficient as popping into a gas station.

Over the years, Nio has developed the idea into a sophisticated system named “battery-as-a-service.” Today, its customers can buy a Nio model without a battery at nearly 70% of the regular price. Instead, by paying about $230 per month, the car owner can swap in a new, rented battery six times a month. While the program does significantly reduce the initial purchase price, it’s hard to calculate whether owning a battery would be less expensive in the long run. Pair that up with the fact car owners may plan to sell their car in a few years, and it becomes a math problem not everyone can solve.

The profitability is a math problem for EV companies, too, as constructing one station can cost between $230,000 and $630,000, according to Chinese website Sohu. And the batteries — now assets of the company instead of the customers — are often not used enough to warrant the depreciation. That makes battery swapping an ambitious, cash-burning bet for now.

Still, reducing the barriers to entry for people to buy EVs will be absolutely vital for getting them adopted more widely. The International Energy Agency reported that EV sales doubled last year compared to 2020, but they still account for just 9% of all vehicle sales worldwide. Speeding up EV adoption is absolutely vital to the world meeting its climate goals, though. Transportation emissions account for roughly 15% of all carbon pollution globally and the world needs to get a grip on that chunk of emissions through EVs and other means.

Conditions in China are in many ways more favorable than in the U.S. for battery-swap tech. The high urban population density in China means many people live in high-rise apartments and need to compete for the limited supply of EV chargers near their homes. If access to charging can’t be guaranteed, then swapping batteries is a useful alternative.

But like all rising industries in China, battery swapping also has the government standing behind it. In April 2020, China’s central government decided that, while direct subsidies for EVs were being phased out, models that support battery swap will remain eligible for subsidies for a longer period “to encourage the development of new business models.” In July 2020, a high-level official at China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology summarized six advantages of battery swapping, from lowering costs to improving battery charging safety, an important endorsement of the technology.

The EV charging landscape in China is still the Wild West. Even outside of the debate about whether traditional charging and battery swapping is the future, there is still disagreement about how to create a battery-swap system within the industry itself as different companies pull in different directions instead of a unified one.

As rapidly as battery swapping might grow in China, few people expect it to replace traditional charging as the dominant EV solution. Currently, there are more than 1.2 million public charging stations in China, 1,000 times more than battery-swap stations. Charging stations are cheaper, asset-light and more flexible.

Teld New Energy, China’s largest charging station company, has been openly opposed to the battery-swapping business. “The battery-swap model will only serve as a supplement to the charging station model, so battery swap won’t substantially impact Teld,” the company told investors in an earnings call.

The battery-swap players also have different visions for the industry. Nio’s stations can only be used by its own vehicles, which only represent around 2% of all EVs in China. CATL says its modular battery is compatible with 80% of global platform-based vehicle models, but ultimately it’s the EV companies’ decision to take up the offer or not. Aulton’s stations are more designed for fleets of electric taxis and buses, which have a consistent need for fast charging, but the enterprise nature of the company makes it less known to the public.

The lack of a unified vision — and with it, the lack of interchangeable EV batteries — is one of the biggest problems facing the industry now. It’s what prevents battery-swap stations from becoming the gas station of a new era. “You wouldn't want a gasoline station which was a GM gasoline station, and another one that was a Ford gasoline station. That would be really annoying for the customer,” Henrik Fisker, founder of American EV company Fisker Inc., said on a podcast.

Last November, China’s national standards-making body released a charging safety standard, the first for the battery-swap field. It only determined the minimum number of times a battery can be safely swapped in its lifetime, but even that minor regulation could be the first step for different EV companies to coordinate their designs in the future.

While most Chinese companies are still looking inward for the future of battery swap, Nio is taking it overseas. In its plan to build 4,000 battery-swap stations by 2025, 1,000 will be outside China. In January, it launched its first overseas battery swap station in Norway, the country that has become the harbinger of Nio’s international strategy. Nio has also reportedly been eyeballing a U.S. expansion, which could be an interesting test to see whether the technology abandoned by Tesla can make it stateside.

Zeyi Yang is a reporter with Protocol | China. Previously, he worked as a reporting fellow for the digital magazine Rest of World, covering the intersection of technology and culture in China and neighboring countries. He has also contributed to the South China Morning Post, Nikkei Asia, Columbia Journalism Review, among other publications. In his spare time, Zeyi co-founded a Mandarin podcast that tells LGBTQ stories in China. He has been playing Pokemon for 14 years and has a weird favorite pick.

Your employee just doesn’t seem to grasp the job. When do you intervene?

If an employee isn’t performing, how long should you give them to improve?

It was the late 1980s. Andrea Brice was 28 and a first-time manager while completing her engineering degree. When I asked her recently about the worst employee she’d ever had — or at least one who had posed a significant management challenge — she remembered a data-entry clerk immediately.

“Perfectly nice young woman who was competent, smart, but not good at her job,” said Brice, now the founder and chief data officer of the data intelligence startup Willowfinch. “[Sometimes] you know somebody is not good, and they’re never going to get good no matter how much training you can give them, because it just doesn’t resonate.”

After a year and a half, it was clear the employee’s performance wasn’t going to improve. She hadn’t committed a fireable offense, so Brice didn’t fire her, but when the clerk expressed frustration about the demands of her job, Brice encouraged her to find a new one.

“She was the one who was like, ‘Andrea, this is so stressful. I can’t,’ and I’m like, ‘But this is the job, so you know what — I will give you a happy recommendation,’” Brice said.

That conversation wasn’t the hard part for Brice: The clerk was more interested in her music, anyway, and ended up going in a different direction with her career. The tough part was helping the clerk realize that she wasn’t happy with her job, Brice said.

If an employee isn’t performing, how long should you give them to improve? Now, with decades of experience under her belt, Brice is a “firm believer in 90 days.” But it’s not always so simple, said Deb Muller, founder and CEO of the employee relations software maker HR Acuity.

“It really depends on the size and the scope of the role,” Muller said. “Does the role have [a] tremendous impact where you might not have as long to make a decision, because the impact of them not doing their job is tremendous?”

In this case, the stakes were low enough that Brice was able to put up with the underperformance for a year and a half. But that was likely a year and a half of Brice spending extra time managing her, Muller said.

“In retrospect, I would bet that when [Brice] looks back, she thinks about the time she had to spend on it, all the re-work she had to spend on it as well,” Muller said.

An underperformer can negatively affect other team members’ performance: Someone who’s unable to do their job can block peers from doing their own. Colleagues will notice that an underperformer isn’t pulling their weight, which can strain a culture and demotivate teammates, Muller said.

And by the time the clerk came forward, she likely had been unhappy in her job for a long time. That may be a sign that an earlier intervention was in order.

“It’s not fun to not be successful at work,” Muller said. “Many times as a manager, you think you’re doing the person a favor by really prolonging the inevitable. In most cases, you’re not.”

As a manager, it can be hard to give negative feedback or put an employee on a performance improvement plan, Muller said, but it’s better than watching them struggle and pretending everything is OK.

First off, expectations need to be laid out clearly: Does the employee have an accurate job description for their role? Do they have the right resources to succeed?

If the expectations have been stated clearly and they’re still underperforming, it’s crucial to give that feedback so the employee has the opportunity to improve. Document everything from the beginning, whether or not you’re sharing that documentation with the employee, so there’s no confusion or finger-pointing if an employee’s performance doesn’t pick up, Muller said.

And if a performance improvement plan is in order, give them the chance to achieve some “quick wins” that could help them gain momentum. Then, you should check in with the employee at least every two weeks to watch their progress.

“That way, you’re going to see: Can they get those wins? Can they do even a little bit?” Muller said. “Are they demonstrating the behaviors that they actually want to succeed in the job?”

Behaviors drive results, even when the results aren’t immediately apparent. So if an employee’s behaviors are improving, they may be on the road to success.

And if they’re not, it’s probably time to get the employee out of the company, Muller said.

Brice was able to get the clerk to move on simply by encouraging her to look for another job. Sometimes, just getting repeated negative feedback will spur an employee to start looking for a new role. But it’s not always that easy, according to Muller.

“You’re giving that person the control,” Muller said. “You’re allowing them to stay with the business, which can be costly. You’re not putting someone in the role who can do the role.”

Muller said she would opt for termination if an employee didn’t improve after receiving feedback and having an opportunity to turn things around.

One final piece of advice for managers as they take performance measures: Make sure you’re doing so consistently across the organization.

“If you’re holding someone up to a certain standard, make sure you’re doing the same for all employees,” Muller said. “You want to be careful that you’re not treating certain employees differently than others.”

Correction: This story was updated to correct Andrea Brice's job title. This story was updated March 23, 2022.

Clari's leaders and partners addressing the biggest questions in tech

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Pilar Schenk is the Chief Operating Officer of

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Madalina Paul is the Regional Vice President of Major Accounts at Docusign.

"Finding transformational talent is not easy; and by extension, you should be purposeful in your strategy to retain exceptional individuals. Giving everyone the right environment to develop, grow, and learn will continuously increase revenue performance across the whole team and maximize the impact that your talent has on the organization."

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Michael Megerian is the Chief Revenue Officer of Yello, with over 21 years of experience building and managing SaaS revenue organizations, at Oracle, Taleo, and Ariba.

"Trying to make every deal as big as possible often adds complexity and extends sales cycles. To accelerate growth, sellers should focus on landing faster, and then expanding, and expanding again. Getting customers into your solution sooner helps you solve their initial problems, then later, you can grow together."

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Bhaskar Roy is the Chief Marketing Officer of Workato. He brings more than 20 years of experience in building and bringing software products to market.

"Bring sales into the marketing planning sessions. The goal of marketing is to help drive pipeline to sellers that turn into revenue. Cross-functional input from sales, marketing, customer success, channels, and anyone else involved in the process drives full alignment."

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Mark Ebert is the Senior Vice President of Sales at 6Sense, where he leads all sales, revenue operations, and enablement teams.

"If you want to improve your sellers' performance, protect their time. Make it clear what high-value activities actually matter and manage against only those. Don't waste energy reporting on activities for the sake of reporting activities."

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Clari's Revenue Operations Platform improves efficiency, predictability, and

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At GDC 2022, indie game studios are heralding the future of four-day workweeks.

The game industry has had to radically rethink its approach to work since the start of the pandemic.

Nick Statt is Protocol's video game reporter. Prior to joining Protocol, he was news editor at The Verge covering the gaming industry, mobile apps and antitrust out of San Francisco, in addition to managing coverage of Silicon Valley tech giants and startups. He now resides in Rochester, New York, home of the garbage plate and, completely coincidentally, the World Video Game Hall of Fame. He can be reached at nstatt@protocol.com.

SAN FRANCISCO — Last June, in the runup to the release of its most recent video game, Montreal-based indie developer Kitfox Games decided to experiment. Instead of working excessive overtime, an industrywide practice in game development known as crunch, Kitfox would give employees Fridays off.

It was a trial run of a four-day workweek, implemented by creative director and co-founder Tanya X. Short to address employee burnout and mental health. It was to last six weeks, with a twice-as-long trial afterward. Now, roughly nine months later, Kitfox has switched to a permanent 32-hour week.

“It was almost impossible to go back to five days. We briefly discussed it, but nobody wanted to even try,” Short said on Monday at the Game Developers Conference in San Francisco. “We’re four days at the very least until the pandemic is actually over, but probably forever.” Short spoke over videoconference with three other game studio leaders who also transitioned their businesses to four-day workweeks.

The game industry, like the tech industry and many other adjacent fields, has had to radically rethink its approach to work since the start of the pandemic. Game studios have been adjusting to hybrid or fully remote approaches to development, while also figuring out better ways to address long-term workplace issues like fostering healthier cultures, retention and employee burnout.

Now, as the industry reckons with entrenched labor practices like crunch and rampant sexism and harassment, scores of smaller game-makers have started asking if there are better ways to develop video games that place a higher priority on the human beings who make them. One clear and obvious solution that’s starting to catch fire in gaming, tech and beyond: the four-day workweek.

“The humans making the games matter as much as the business that’s profiting from the game,” Short said. “We had been enduring the pandemic that long. I really needed people to not burn out and to stay on after launch and come with 100% of their health. It seemed like the best, or at least a temporary solution. And we thought, ‘Well, why not continue?’”

Short was joined on the GDC panel by KO_OP studio director Saleem Dabbous, Armor Games CEO John Cooney and ManaVoid Entertainment CEO Chris Chancey. In addition to these studios, indie developers like Crows Crows Crows, Young Horses and Die Gute Fabrik have all transitioned to four-day workweeks. And at least one larger game developer has joined the group: Square Enix’s Eidos-Montréal, which developed last year’s Guardians of the Galaxy, and its subsidiary Eidos-Sherbrooke, both of which are located in Quebec.

Like Eidos, all four studios on the GDC panel are based in Montreal. Chancey specifically cited the competitive game development market in the Canadian city as one motivation for his company adopting a four-day workweek a full year before the pandemic started, making ManaVoid a rare example.

“It was one of the core values of the studio to have a no-crunch culture. We’ve never gone back to the five-day,” Chancey said. “Also, being in Montreal, it is a competitive landscape to find staff, senior talent. The reception immediately was pretty crazy, so we decided to keep it.” Chancey decided to begin trialing the four-day workweek in 2019 because of a study out of Europe that showed the benefits of reducing working hours to increase productivity.

One hurdle the group discussed was how to measure team productivity after switching to four-day workweeks. Though many game companies do adhere to project management approaches you find in tech startups and other programming enterprises, game development is a much more collaborative and creative affair than other technical industries that may more closely measure employees’ working hours and output. That makes objectively measuring productivity changes difficult, Short said.

“Our expectations were that productivity would slightly dip. We expected to lose 5[%] to 10% just because I think most people [on] most weeks check out Friday afternoon. That was my baseline expectation,” Short said. Instead, the studio leaders all said the effects became obvious through employee feedback and team morale. “I don’t think a single person ever complained,” Short added.

“We conducted a bunch of interviews, anonymous feedback, one-on-ones. This sounds obvious, but it was really positive across the board,” Dabbous said. As a studio leader, Dabbous said he himself started to immediately feel the effect of having extra personal time. “I was really stressed out. I needed more time. Just for me, on a personal level, I could see the benefit to myself.”

“Across the board, morale was up. There was a lot less absentee-ism during the week,” Chancey said. “Organically, people felt like they could be refreshed with a three-day weekend.”

“I have two young children who are 2 and 4 years old,” said Cooney, whose studio Armor Games is the largest of the group, with roughly 35 employees. “Every Friday morning I volunteer at my older daughter's preschool, and that has been one of the best things of the four-day workweek. It feels like it’s my time I’m getting back.”

It wasn't an entirely smooth transition. All four panelists admitted that holidays posed a challenge to their companies, and that it was a constant back-and-forth to determine whether it made sense to take a three-day week or work on a holiday instead. There was also the rare case of employees who wanted to work more; Chancey said he had to create room for team members to work on Fridays in ways that didn’t incentivize others to do the same.

But universally, the speakers said they see the four-day workweek as a rising trend in the game industry that will become a more vital tool for attracting talent, retaining employees and creating more healthy work environments.

“I think the pandemic has put a lot of different perspectives on what it means to work, and what it means to be happy at home and feel safe and secure and healthy,” Chancey said. “I think it's going to get more normalized, and we'll see more studios doing it. I think it is another beast for a AAA studio to tackle the four-day week than it is an indie studio. Just the sheer scale and coordination of the labor force … I don't know how that would work. But I think for indies.”

“That is one of the main things that small studios can offer. I can't imagine that this won't become the norm in the future,” Cooney said. “And I think it should become the norm, I don't see any reason for it not to be. And part of that is retaining and attracting talent. Because we don't compete with the big studios in terms of salary or benefits or whatever. So we have to find other ways to engage people in meaningful ways and make our work environments attractive for them.”

As for how to achieve a four-day workweek if you work in the game industry, Dabbous said labor organizing can be an important first step. “If your team is considering a four-day workweek, the most important thing I wouldn't suggest to you is to consider unionizing,” Dabbous said. KO_OP is in fact a cooperative, meaning its employees share in the ownership of the company and are more directly incentivized by the success of its products. “If you're a group of team members, you should build collective power, because you can't trust people like us who are giving this talk right now as business owners. You know, we might be nice bosses; we might be good people. But there's nothing stopping us from reverting that.”

Dabbous said the four-day workweek is a great starting point for labor organizing in games because of how universally popular it can be among employees. “It’s a really easy place to unify a lot of things where you can be like, ‘Yeah, I would love that. And my team would love that.’ And that's a place where you find common ground to build solidarity.”

He said employees who may be considering unionization should reach out to organizations like Game Workers Unite, a growing labor-organizing initiative that has helped employees at studios like Activision Blizzard begin to lobby for change by connecting them with pro-union activists and labor unions like the Communications Workers of America.

“Then you can take some of that power into the team's head and enforce and ensure proper boundaries and good work-life balance,” Dabbous said, “in a way that you can't by just trusting the owners of the studio.”

Nick Statt is Protocol's video game reporter. Prior to joining Protocol, he was news editor at The Verge covering the gaming industry, mobile apps and antitrust out of San Francisco, in addition to managing coverage of Silicon Valley tech giants and startups. He now resides in Rochester, New York, home of the garbage plate and, completely coincidentally, the World Video Game Hall of Fame. He can be reached at nstatt@protocol.com.

Another workplace presentation tool has entered the arena.

Tome calls itself a “modern storytelling tool for work."

Lizzy Lawrence ( @LizzyLaw_) is a reporter at Protocol, covering tools and productivity in the workplace. She's a recent graduate of the University of Michigan, where she studied sociology and international studies. She served as editor in chief of The Michigan Daily, her school's independent newspaper. She's based in D.C., and can be reached at llawrence@protocol.com.

Whether you’re in an office or remote, getting and keeping your co-workers’ attention in meetings is one of the biggest challenges out there. But what if your presentations looked like Instagram stories? Introducing Tome, a new presentation tool. It launched today, announcing $32 million in funding from Greylock and Coatue.

Tome calls itself a “modern storytelling tool for work,” and its pitch in a nutshell is to make building workplace presentations as intuitive as social media. Co-founders Keith Peiris and Henri Liriani both come from the consumer social media world: Peiris worked on Instagram’s augmented-reality camera, and Liriani helped redesign Facebook Messenger. Peiris said the two always felt that Meta’s rich storytelling products didn’t match the way employees presented information internally.

“The stuff that we’re building for our users is pretty incredible,” Peiris said. “But when we were making decisions inside of Instagram, we were using the slide format from the ‘80s.”

Tome isn’t the only tool that’s sick of the slide deck. It’s entering an already crowded race for the future of workplace presentations. Tools like Prezi, mmhmm and Brandlive want to bring the charisma of TV to presentations. Others, like Beautiful.ai, want to help us design slides like a pro. For many in the workplace, though, classic tools like PowerPoint or Google Slides work just fine. Not everyone prioritizes putting effort into creating eye-catching internal presentations.

Peiris said Greylock partner and LinkedIn co-founder Reid Hoffman was initially skeptical about Tome’s ability to disrupt the presentation tool space. “But it was funny, we started building the prototype and showing it to people, and we just kept hearing: ‘Build this thing and we'll pay for it,’” Peiris said. He and Liriani raised some seed money and started hiring folks from Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest and Pokémon Go, to name a few.

The app still uses “slides” as its core presentation components. But each slide in a presentation might look different. You can make your slide as long as a website page. You can drag in four or five videos that sync up to each other. You can embed a 3D model and sprinkle it with annotations. Tome also allows users to integrate design elements from other tools: Figma docs, Airtable databases, YouTube videos. “We wanted to build this format from the beginning so you could hook it up to the source and not have to screenshot every week and put stuff out of date,” Peiris said.

Tome isn’t the only tool that’s sick of the slide deck.Image: Tome

Tome’s biggest selling point is flexibility across platform types and devices: desktop, tablet or phone. The team designed the mobile-viewing experience first, an unusual move for a workplace tool. Our phones are becoming an increasingly useful place to do work: They travel with us throughout the day, and aren’t reliant on Wi-Fi. You can tap through Tome presentations like a friend’s Instagram story, and react with comments or videos shot directly on your phone. The presenter can also see who opened their Tome. You can’t build Tomes on mobile just yet, but Peiris expects that feature to be ready over the summer.

The mobile experience has been particularly valuable for Snapchat’s design team, Peiris said. “All of their design work is on mobile,” Peiris said. “They can open a Tome up, see it in the right size and then give feedback on it.”

Tome's pitch is to make building workplace presentations as intuitive as social media.Image: Tome

You can present Tomes from the browser, or you can present from the mobile app using AirPlay. Peiris said his team designed it for both synchronous and asynchronous presentations, but he’s been especially excited to see remote teams sending each other Tomes outside of meetings. You can overlay a video of yourself in Tome slides, or you can let the presentation speak for itself.

Tome is two years in the making, finding early adopters at companies like Stripe, Notion and Snap. It’s still in a beta phase, with the team adding new features and final touches. During this period, Tome will be free and open to everyone. Peiris said Tome will revert to a “conventional SaaS pricing model” later this year.

The workplace doesn’t need Netflix-like presentations or even more beautiful slides, Peiris says. It needs a tool that’s easy to use and most effectively gets your message across.

“We're completely focused on the power in great storytelling,” Peiris said. “So hopefully you put the least amount of effort into Tome to get the most persuasive artifact.”

Lizzy Lawrence ( @LizzyLaw_) is a reporter at Protocol, covering tools and productivity in the workplace. She's a recent graduate of the University of Michigan, where she studied sociology and international studies. She served as editor in chief of The Michigan Daily, her school's independent newspaper. She's based in D.C., and can be reached at llawrence@protocol.com.

Sergey Vasylchuk, who helped start up the Aid for Ukraine crypto donation project, didn’t even vote for Volodymyr Zelenskyy, but he’s a believer now.

Aid for Ukraine founder and Everstake CEO Sergey Vasylchuk joined other Ukrainians in setting up a crypto donation campaign.

Benjamin Pimentel ( @benpimentel) covers crypto and fintech from San Francisco. He has reported on many of the biggest tech stories over the past 20 years for the San Francisco Chronicle, Dow Jones MarketWatch and Business Insider, from the dot-com crash, the rise of cloud computing, social networking and AI to the impact of the Great Recession and the COVID crisis on Silicon Valley and beyond. He can be reached at bpimentel@protocol.com or via Signal at (510)731-8429.

Sergey Vasylchuk didn’t vote for Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and he thought Ukrainians who voted in the former actor as president three years ago were crazy.

Russia’s invasion of his homeland changed the crypto entrepreneur’s mind.

Vasylchuk, who is founder and CEO of the Ukrainian crypto company Everstake, now sees Zelenskyy as the leader who is “fighting and protecting his country.” And Vasylchuk is doing his part for the resistance from abroad, in part by launching a DAO called Aid for Ukraine to funnel crypto donations to his country.

He had just arrived in the U.S. with his family to attend flight school in Florida when Russia invaded Ukraine. It was a tough time for all of them. His parents and most of his employees bore the brunt of what quickly turned into a brutal offensive.

“I was just emotionally drained,” he said. To “stop feeling useless and helpless,” Vasylchuk joined other Ukrainians in setting up a crypto donation campaign with FTX and Ukraine’s Ministry of Digital Transformation. The campaign has already raised more than $60 million in crypto donations.

In an interview with Protocol, Vasylchuk talked about how the war has affected his family and colleagues, the crypto relief effort and the future of crypto in his homeland.

This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.

How did you find out that the war had started?

I probably will never forget this day. It was night, and my wife woke up and said, “It started.” My brain was like, “It’s probably a nightmare.” I just went to sleep and did not pay attention. It was hard to even imagine that it would happen. But then I woke up and opened my phone. I saw thousands of messages, and I was thinking, “What the hell is going on?”

I was just shocked. My parents are still in Ukraine. Many of my friends and employees, they're still there. I could not believe it. It was just shock. I was emotionally drained. I didn’t feel anything.

Then, after one or two days, I tried to gather myself together and said, “This is not an option, to sit and do nothing. It will not help anyone.” So I started to do something.

You had just arrived in the States when Russia invaded.

Yeah, I came from Ukraine just two days before. I was planning to [go] to flight school here in Florida. Luckily, I took my kids. My plan was, while I attended school, my family could spend time on the shore instead of fog and rain. This is something that saved my family from the missiles and guns.

You still have a team in Ukraine.

We are close to a hundred. Many of them are working remotely because of COVID.

I understand some of them have joined the resistance.

Currently the feeling of probably 99% of all Ukrainians, it doesn't depend on where they are, they try to resist. Everyone is working. I don't know anyone in Ukraine who's just sitting around and observing what is going on.

Can you share conversations you’ve had with team members who have joined the fight?

Some have military experience. The conversation is simple. We need to protect our home.

How did you set up Aid for Ukraine?

I went to the guys from the Ministry of Digital Information and said, “We need to find some way to ensure that the money will be spent and accepted in the proper way.” The DAO was the only way. People were dying. We needed to act right now. It was the most fast and proven and efficient way to show the outside world that this is a group of people who have this partnership.

How long did it take you to set it up?

How is it different from the Kuna Exchange initiative led by Michael Chobanian?

I’ve worked with Michael Chobanian in the crypto scene in Ukraine. All those people who are currently trying to help have known each other for years.

We have different blockchain groups inside Ukraine. They started to do their own initiatives independently.

I started to see the complaints from the tech community: “Hey guys, what’s going on?” Then we connected with the Ministry of Digital Information. We needed to unite all this stuff under the umbrella of the ministry, because we need to speak officially to the people.

So you also accept NFTs?

We cannot deny people who want to donate any type of asset. NFTs are just another type of asset which could be helpful to protect our home country.

Do you have any information on what the funds were used for?

There are two different accounts. One account is humanitarian. Another account belongs to the Ministry of Defense. I see the results. I see that our country is beating the second-biggest [military] in the world. So I'm pretty sure that they know what to do.

How is your family doing in Ukraine?

My parents are still in Ukraine. They don't want to leave. I tried to convince them. But they don't want to. I'm happy that I’m here with my family.

I'm guessing you have a lot of Russian friends and colleagues. What have been some of the conversations you've had with them? What has that been like for you?

For me personally, there's two types of Russian people. One of them just uses the TV instead of the brains. Others use their brains and don't do the TV. I'm surprised that Russia could build such an efficient propaganda machine.

For the people who are under the influence of propaganda, I do not even talk [to them]. It’s a waste of time. You can't convince them.

How do you view Putin? How did that view change over time?

I never liked Putin. But before, I didn't care. Right now, the majority of the people just hate him. I can assure you that. 99% personally hate him.

Do you have any thoughts on Zelenskyy?

Wait, you voted against him?

I voted against him initially. I was depressed knowing that this guy who was making movies became the president. It was like this funny movie. I was like, “What? How did you use your brain?” I was disappointed.

Did you watch his show, “Servant of the People”?

Yeah, it was funny. Really, it was funny. And this was the reason why they voted for him. Those emotions were used to put him in this position. I was super angry and I was super disappointed [with] the way Ukrainians were thinking.

How do you see Zelenskyy now?

Right now, I see that the guy who has no political experience, hasn't experienced playing political games, he's doing what he can. He's fighting and protecting his country. He is playing a very significant role.

I believe that if we had any other politician that previously had this experience of political shady games, probably we will likely lose or I don't know what will happen.

So right now, you’re happy that Zelenskyy is in charge.

Yes, I'm proud that we currently have a president who is not scared to go to fight with the second-biggest army in the world.

One thing that I really like, after all the community efforts which raised more than $50 million in crypto, he took it seriously and the next day he signed the law which currently makes crypto legal in Ukraine.

This is another reason that I want to come back as soon as possible. You will be amazed what we will be able to build [with crypto].

What has been the low point for you so far in this conflict?

I cannot understand that people are killing the old and young. They’re killing seniors and they’re killing kids. I couldn't understand. If you see it, you start to hate it because … people who are bombing delivery hospitals, they’re animals. People who are using weapons against people who are not able to leave, they’re animals. You should understand, there’s a lot of hate.

What are your personal plans?

My personal plan is to return home as soon as it is safe.

Benjamin Pimentel ( @benpimentel) covers crypto and fintech from San Francisco. He has reported on many of the biggest tech stories over the past 20 years for the San Francisco Chronicle, Dow Jones MarketWatch and Business Insider, from the dot-com crash, the rise of cloud computing, social networking and AI to the impact of the Great Recession and the COVID crisis on Silicon Valley and beyond. He can be reached at bpimentel@protocol.com or via Signal at (510)731-8429.

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